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Welcome to Episode 168 of the Salsa Kings LIVE podcast
We have been featured as #1 in “Top 10 Salsa Podcasts” on FeedSpot.
Hey Familia, welcome back to Salsa Kings Live, episode 168! This time, we’re diving deeper into something that touches all of us—connecting with your partner on the dance floor. Whether you’re leading or following, there’s a lot to learn about how we relate to one another, not just through our dance moves but also energetically. Just like in life, our experiences in dance can be a reflection of the way we interact with others, and when we give our best and work together, we can create something truly amazing.
Key Points:
We started by revisiting a key idea from episode 166—about how both partners should contribute equally to the dance. Pablo shared an experience where he had to “take the reins” because his partner wasn’t giving her best, and it made us think about how important it is for both people to show up fully in a dance. Dancing isn’t just about one person leading and the other following, but about creating a shared experience where both parties bring something to the table.
When we dance, it’s easy to fall into the trap of doing less because our brains naturally want to conserve energy. But as dancers, we should always be pushing ourselves to give more, whether that’s physically or energetically. In life, just like in dance, we often face short-term versus long-term decisions. Sure, it’s easier to slack off in the moment, but the long-term rewards of staying fully present and engaged are always worth it.
One big idea we touched on is the balance between being authentic and giving your partner the space to be themselves too. Sometimes, when we’re dancing with someone who isn’t putting in the effort, we might feel like we’re carrying them. But we can still have fun by expressing ourselves fully, even if the other person isn’t. It’s important to remember that dancing is a two-way street. Just like in any relationship, both people need to contribute to create a magical experience.
We also talked about how, as leads, it’s easy to take control of the dance, but it’s important to give the follow space to express themselves too. Some follows may not even realize they can contribute, especially if they’ve always been told what to do by the lead. As leads, we need to create that space and invite them to take charge in their own way. It’s about passing the ball back and forth, creating a playful and dynamic interaction where both partners are fully involved.
For follows, this means stepping up and showing your personality. If you’re not bringing anything to the dance, you’re missing out on the opportunity to create something unique. Leads might be doing all the work, but the dance becomes truly special when both people are contributing. Whether you’re following or leading, it’s about being aware and paying attention to the other person’s energy, so you can create something magical together.
Closing Thoughts:
At the end of the day, dancing is about more than just the steps. It’s about connecting with your partner and creating something together that you couldn’t do alone. Whether you’re dancing for three minutes or forming a lifelong connection, both people need to be fully engaged to make it special. When we come together on the dance floor, we’re not just moving to the music—we’re sharing a relationship, however brief, and both people deserve to be seen and heard.
So, next time you’re dancing, remember to bring your full self to the table and give your partner the space to do the same. Whether you’re leading or following, the goal is always to create something beautiful together. As we always say, “Help us serve you,” because when both partners are fully involved, the experience becomes infinitely better for everyone.
Transcript:
[Speaker 1]
Familia, welcome back! Salsa Kings live episode 168. 168?
Rico Rico in the house. Rico Rico in the house. That’s why it’s called Rico Recap.
Verdad. Because we are bringing you, or I guess we’re just being very vulnerable in real-life scenarios and I personally believe that what happens to one of us kind of happens to all of us in one way shape form or another and I think that we have a lot that we can learn from one another if we are humble enough to both share our experiences and listen to them.
[Speaker 2]
Yeah.
[Speaker 1]
Particularly found a lot of value in Pablo’s experience with, it was kind of like, for those of you that didn’t hear the episode, it’s 166. Why are you avoiding it? It was the part one and it’s almost like you know the follows kind of giving themselves a hundred percent, the same time talking about kind of both parties contributing to the relationship to be able to create something larger and Pablo’s experience, some of his partners were just not contributing so he kind of took the reins and had a great time and downloaded, was able to download.
We always represent. I told you, 166. I lost him, guys.
I lost him on 166. From here forward, estamos bien jodidos, familia. Write him an email, bro.
Write him an email, guys.
[Speaker 2]
Humble him a little.
[Speaker 1]
Pablo at salsakings.com.
[Speaker 2]
Depression again.
[Speaker 1]
So he had explained that in one particular instance, he was able to take the LAN network Ethernet cable from one end and kind of stick it back into himself and he was able to produce double the experience, et cetera. And what I was kind of venturing for or challenging is kind of the, again, the staying together not just physically but energetically as well so that you can experience the music together. I think it’s a lot easier to be able to kind of let someone take the wheel energetically if they are asking for it.
[Speaker 2]
Oye, I was dancing yesterday in class and I was dancing as a follow. Yo estaba dejándome ir. I was chilling.
I wasn’t doing anything. Obviously, I was like metiendo energía, pero, yeah, it’s so much easier to just not do anything. Right.
[Speaker 1]
And I think naturally, you know, law of least resistance kind of kicks in and, you know, we kind of, if we can do less… We’re lazy creatures. Yes, by default.
[Speaker 2]
Our brain is very lazy, yeah.
[Speaker 1]
And always, I think, at least I would like to think that the nature of Salsa King is kind of like our culture, if you would, is, you know, kind of pushing us to the next level and kind of maximizing or capitalizing on the energy that we do use in something that’s going to produce for us. Like, silly example, but I think very relevant. Like, if we eat healthy, you know, like we’re…
The energy, the mental bandwidth and power to be able to do that and kind of fight those urges and that type of deal. At the end of the day, once the habit is broken, and I think that’s very key too, short term versus long term, that in the long run, we’re going to be happy that we made those decisions. Everybody that’s healthy is glad that they’re healthy.
The people that are, you know, they’re making less than optimum decisions is because it’s kind of on the short term basis. And then, of course, there’s always the other argument, you know, we only live once, etc. And absolutely, you know, that’s where staying present comes into play.
And there’s kind of like that delicate balance that we could talk about as well. But I think there’s a lot more that we can expand upon from the previous episode that was what I had said made sense. I think kind of like the mic drop, if you would, was kind of like the possibility that our partner or even us can be selfish.
We can be selfish in that relationship.
[Speaker 2]
You know, that’s pretty interesting because, I mean, to start with that, we actually kind of cheated this episode because I kind of told them what I wanted to talk about today. But it’s okay. He doesn’t know the whole story, so you guys are good.
But yes, I kind of agree that to be able to be a better dancer, you got to be selfish, especially certain people who like to give more. I think that tends to be leads who some role mainly about giving to the follow, always bringing a good experience to the table, kind of like fishing for Amazon reviews. I feel like the next step that I came up with is just be authentic and be yourself.
But I found that to be yourself in dance, you actually got to be selfish, which kind of gets into what you told me. Because at the end of the day, if you want to express yourself, if you want to express your personality, you want to be authentic, that means that the other person are not expressing theirs, but to the extent that they want to. But here’s the thing, a lot of the follows how we’re talking, that they just want to chill out, they don’t want to do anything, they’re not expressing their personality.
There is nothing there. So by you expressing yourself, you’re not actually taking up their space because they’re not taking up any space to begin with, and energetically, if you don’t know what I mean. And I’ve actually found that by you taking up the space, you’re doing your own thing, being authentic, doing whatever comes to mind, you have more fun, and the other person actually has more fun.
My experience. What do you think?
[Speaker 1]
Well, all right. And that’s kind of like what we had left off last time, is in certain scenarios, that that is the case, again, if we’re dealing with somebody, and the thing is that this is an if, if we’re dealing with somebody who is not willing to contribute, who doesn’t want to contribute. So I would like to always speak from, and this is kind of where we left off the last episode, for those of you that didn’t get a chance to listen to it, so you’re right with us, that we only want to talk about the optimum experiences.
The idea of being able to come together and stay together. I think the example that I had given last episode was, you know, I’ve come into, I’ve asked someone to dance. And for the purpose of dancing with them.
You’re both dancing.
[Speaker 2]
Right.
[Speaker 1]
That means you’re both… Dancing.
[Speaker 2]
Yeah.
[Speaker 1]
Basically. And I want to, and I would cut you off there to use the word to make sure that the intention of that word is clear. If we’re dancing, that doesn’t mean we’re being dragged.
Right. Dancing is not being dragged. Dancing is not borrowing my corpse.
No, that’s not dancing. Just because you’re on time doesn’t mean you’re dancing. Dancing means that we’re allowing our spirit to experience and express ourselves.
Without that expression, we are again just using our partner as a tool. Whether that be a lead or a follow. Because definitely, there is no doubt about it, that it is an ego trip to the maximum to be able to take a follow and do whatever we want with them and then follow it to perfection.
Oh yeah. And knowing that we were, we are a hundred percent responsible for that experience. And it was amazing.
And vice versa.
[Speaker 2]
Right.
[Speaker 1]
Ladies, I’m sure that you’ve danced with a guy. Let’s say for example that he knows, you know, considerably less. Ustedes son salsera, la cubana.
And you pick up a white boy and a salsa song comes on. And you just rock his world. And he’s not even on his timing.
And he doesn’t care obviously because he’s entertained with everything that you’re doing. There’s, it’s a definitely an amazing ego boost. But I want, what I want to be able to do here and for the sake of the title of the episode, which is again an amazing topic that you came up with Paulo, is you know, why are you avoiding me?
The point is, I think that what you came up with is the idea of the real true awareness of your partner. To connect to the music is definitely the starting point, but that’s the starting point. All right.
So now we’ve met. So if the music, let’s say, okay, let’s put this example. Let’s say the music is, I don’t know, Main Street.
Let’s make the music a physical location. Okay. Okay.
Main Street or whatever. The downtown billiards club. It doesn’t matter.
Gaiocho. Gaiocho. Whatever.
Yeah. The, the music is the location that we meet. Right.
Okay. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7. We’re on the same frequency.
We’re here. Now what? That’s just the beginning.
Right. Okay. You know, you know the steps of the dance in order to be able to connect.
Now that we have connected, describe to me your relationship. So what’s happening is, is in that scenario that you explained is okay. You guys met on Southwest eighth street.
Okay. And then she jumped on your back.
[Speaker 2]
Right. So I’m carrying her.
[Speaker 1]
You’re carrying her and you’re doing absolutely. And you’re having a great time because obviously you’re, she’s letting you carry her and you’re going to, to your favorite ball and you’re going to whatever, wherever you want to go. Right.
And you obviously like it because everywhere that you want to go. Right. And of course, again, also at the same time, it’s very relaxing to be, not have to think and to, right.
But the idea that I, that I’ve been kind of promoting here is that this can very much happen in a kind of back and forth kind of way that you can be a charge for the first, however long you feel. And then you see her that she’s picking up and she’s liking this particular thing. And then you pass the ball to her.
And then it’s this kind of back and forth flirtatious, fun, playful, like, okay, here’s what I got. Let me see what you got. And I think actually I kind of interrupted myself with the example is that I’ve, I’ve asked somebody to dance before.
And, and what I got was them kind of just looking at me and waiting for me. And I was kind of given a little something and I was waiting for a little something in return. Right.
And that, at least for me, again, on a personal level, that’s what makes the magic happen. Again, we have very much the opportunity, at least as leads to practice all the things that we want to practice. You know, with somebody who’s allowing themselves to be led on that level.
But we’re talking about two different dimensions. You can, we as leads are leading physically, but the follows should be leading energetically setting the mood. You know, Hey, Pablo, this is this is how I like it.
Like, I like ice cream. What ice cream are you going to get me? I like pasta.
What Italian or I like Italian food. Where are you going to take me? Right.
Does that make sense? Versus kind of like, Oh, I don’t know. You know, and then you got to figure it out all by yourself, right?
Which again, you could totally do. And that’s nice to be surprised. There’s no doubt about it.
But I think there’s a lot to learn in general with the dynamics and the parallels with the relationship. I just spent the last 10 minutes talking. It’s your turn, bro.
[Speaker 2]
Yes, ma’am. Well, I’ve actually been thinking about what you were saying. I like the story about the A street and kind of walk into Valentine or whatever place you like.
I think I’m going to stick with what I said before. I think that if the lady or the follow, not necessarily a lady, there’s follows that are guys, but if the follow is not taking up the space, if the follow is not doing anything, then I feel like you showing your personality, doing what you want and being authentic and basically doing whatever you want, it’s not necessarily you carrying them. It depends on how you’re approaching the dance.
Right. I mean, the approach is huge. I agree.
Exactly. Because at the end of the day, if you get five follows and you dance with the five of them and all of them are not showing any personality, they’re not authentic, they’re not bringing anything to the dance. At the end of the day, it’s five people who are probably very similar to dance with because you’re just doing whatever you want.
It’s your style that’s been shown. It’s not theirs. So at the end of the day, they’re the ones who are losing.
And I don’t think it’s caring because you don’t have to compromise with them. They’re not bringing anything and they don’t want anything. They’re not doing anything.
There’s nothing to compromise. You’re doing whatever you want. Yes.
[Speaker 1]
I do agree with that. However, which I do believe that we spoke, we touched on this last episode too, which is why I like that we’re doing a part two. We can talk a little bit more in depth about it.
I think that all of us, leads in particular, but follows included, which is why in our program we teach follows to mark in place. We are teaching them to allow the lead to lead. Meaning that as leads, we should allow the follows to represent themselves.
[Speaker 2]
Actually, can I? Yeah, I think you’re right in that. I mean, obviously here I’m talking about in a very, not extreme, but a common case that’s like follows that don’t do anything.
They don’t bring anything. But as you’re saying, you got to be paying attention. You got to be aware if you’re doing whatever you want and you don’t notice that the follow wants to do a certain step or she wants to break off of you and do some footwork.
Like I see you’re doing something wrong there.
[Speaker 1]
Or correct. But here’s a scenario, which I believe that this is more common. What I’m about to say now.
[Speaker 2]
Okay.
[Speaker 1]
What if a guy has never given her the opportunity or the space to express herself? What if all the guys are telling her where to go from beginning to end all the time? What if she doesn’t know that she likes to contribute to the relationship?
[Speaker 2]
How are you going to get her to contribute to the relationship if she doesn’t know how to contribute?
[Speaker 1]
Okay. Well, how do you get someone who doesn’t know something inspired to be able to do something? You’re doing it.
You’re doing it.
[Speaker 2]
And then what? Giving them the space to do it. Bingo.
Pero that’s what I’m saying. You should always start by you doing and then pay attention so that notice if somebody’s they’re trying to do something. Bingo.
Absolutely. But you should always be. That’s what I’m saying.
You should always be personality authentic. You should always be doing your thing, whatever you want with whoever you want. And then if they want to bring something, that’s welcome.
Right. Oh, absolutely.
[Speaker 1]
But I think there’s a there’s a I think there’s a level of it’s welcome. Because I think that’s kind of standard. Everybody knows that.
That’s maybe not. Maybe it’s not as obvious, but it should be. And I think instructors should be talking about that more often.
There’s it’s welcome. But then there’s you invite them. It’s like, I’m going to wait here for you.
You get what I’m saying to where they’re like, oh, okay, this is you. Okay. All right.
And you give them the space to be able to do that and kind of get them outside of the comfort zone just a little bit. Now, this is this seems a little this is a little bit of an interesting dynamic because we’re talking about leads to follows. Right.
But the other way around, too, as a follow, you could very much do this for the leads. Right. Let’s say, ladies, you have been training your whole life.
[Speaker 2]
Okay.
[Speaker 1]
Right. Do it a tremendous I’d say that. And you think a guy over there in the corner is cute or not.
Doesn’t matter. But he has no idea what he’s doing. Right.
[Speaker 2]
Okay.
[Speaker 1]
It’s the yes, I know what I’m doing, but I’m not going to judge you. I want to see what you got, regardless. Right.
It doesn’t have to be. And this is so shallow, this language is why I hate saying it, but like on my level, when we’re talking about dance, that’s not important.
[Speaker 2]
It’s the relationship that you share. We can we can play around with a basic step. You don’t need to be doing absolutely.
But the point is that I don’t go into a dance expecting anything, meaning that I don’t go into a dance looking at people like, oh, yeah, what’s up? What’s up? Where are you at?
Which I did before. I kind of stayed with them to see if they brought anything. And 99 percent of the time they didn’t.
So I guess I guess you’re talking from an ideal point. I’m talking from a realistic. Okay, sure.
I’m from a hundred. Yeah, what would you? Absolutely.
[Speaker 1]
Yeah, absolutely. But for the sake of the podcast, for the sake of our listeners, for all of you that are listening, that that one percent. Oh, yeah, that’s the one.
That’s the one. That’s the one. That’s what we want to model.
That’s what we want to go after every single time. And the reason why we have this podcast is the reason why people are not contributing is because I don’t think that there’s just enough awareness being brought to this simple point that it’s like. This this could be, I think, with the analogy that we gave was, you know, one bandwidth shared and then you take the cord from her, put it to you.
Now you have double the bandwidth. And I was talking about to have 16 worth. Right.
When both parties are contributing to create and build something that they otherwise couldn’t do individually.
[Speaker 2]
Right.
[Speaker 1]
From experience. And this is for both leads and follows. If you want.
Oh, what’s that? Oh, it’s that quote. It goes.
You can go fast alone. But you can go far together. OK.
And that’s ultimately the idea is that, yes, we can kind of get a quickie. Right. If you would, we can kind of satisfy the short term.
We can satisfy our egos by kind of like getting our jitters out, getting our salsa fix or bachata fix by kind of going all in with somebody, regardless of what they know. Because remember, what’s what’s the inspiration specifically for this episode? Why are you avoiding me?
Because you were connecting deeper with the music and you feel that you weren’t connecting enough with your partner.
[Speaker 2]
OK.
[Speaker 1]
Right.
[Speaker 2]
Yeah.
[Speaker 1]
So so if we want to do that to allow the Trinity to flow and to not carry the relationship on just your side with the music. Right. And I’m not saying, you know, to never do that.
It’s obviously fun, you know, but I’m just talking about from from an optimum experience to definitely we don’t want to avoid our partner. We want to we want to move together and and by considering them the entire time versus, again, using our partner as a tool to kind of get our salsa fix off.
[Speaker 2]
Right.
[Speaker 1]
Is is ultimately at the end of the day going to produce the feelings and even the results on a tangible level that that I genuinely believe that we’re all looking for. Especially as we get better at it with time and practice, because naturally, just like everything else in the beginning, it’s not going to be anywhere near as satisfying as probably what I’m representing right now on the show. So so, yeah, is that perhaps thinking a little bit more?
I know and I know that I’m speaking so. Through through, for lack of better words, so, you know, fluffy intangibles. But I have had so much more fun.
Constantly keeping the Trinity in mind. Regardless, and and and my partner within seconds is smiling because they see. That I am honoring them.
And and that goes and that goes even the times that I’ve danced as follows. It’s I’m like.
[Speaker 2]
What’s up? I’m bringing it. Are you going to bring it like see, but that’s different when you get a follow that does that, then that’s that’s the person you’re dancing with the person.
You can create something unique, right? But can can we?
[Speaker 1]
How much? How much can we inspire others by giving them the space that others haven’t?
[Speaker 2]
Yes, you got to give them the space, but first you got to give them the personality or they are the personality or you. You gotta get yourself first.
[Speaker 1]
Oh, I agree. I agree 100% right and you always got to step in. You meet on a street and you’re not going to just walk right by the person.
You gotta say, hey, hello, how are you? My name is Pablo. Excuse me.
My name is Pablo, right? So you definitely always have to represent yourself. There’s no doubt about it.
And in dance you can represent that infinitely, which is wonderful. But I think to leave our partner behind. Oh, yeah.
No, you don’t want to do that is is is ideally because because here’s what you can. What can happen realistically is that you try to pass the ball and then they just pass it right back to you or they don’t take it. They just drop it.
All right. Or they just drop it. Right.
Exactly. So you know, in those scenarios, I agree, but I think that we can as long as we are heading in that direction, we’re going to be able to create a lot more magical dances in the social realm. I agree.
And and and follows. It’s there’s kind of like a thin line. I mean, would you would you say that like, OK, I’m well, I’m supposed to follow.
That means I’m not supposed to do anything wrong. You know, like there’s there’s there’s there’s a whole other dimension that ultimately you’re in charge of, which we we speak about. And I believe it’s episode fifty two women power.
Take a listen to that if you haven’t. But ladies, you as you know, you rule the world. You are everything.
You’re the reason why we dance, ladies. Look, if he’s not turning you right, leave him. And that’s and that’s and that’s the truth.
And and and and to not represent who you are, what you like is a disservice to both you and him, because if he’s any type of good, whether that’s on the dance floor or not, he’s going to ask you your name. He’s going to want to know who you are. He’s going to want to know what you like and he’s going to want to give it to you.
It is unfortunately, ladies, I do. But I do. I apologize on behalf of the male species that we cannot read your minds.
So the more clear that you are about what you want versus expecting him to give you what you don’t even know that you want. That is definitely going to create a lot more clarity for you. Yes.
And at the end of the day, a lot more smiles as he’s going to deliver. He’s if he’s any good, because if you say, hey, I want chocolate ice cream, you walk to that guy and he gives you strawberry. No, you dump him and you go to the next one.
You say, I want chocolate ice cream. You keep going until you find somebody who’s going to give you chocolate ice cream and you’d be surprised. You’d be surprised at how many actually would give you chocolate ice cream.
And then you ask for the next thing and never stops.
[Speaker 2]
Strawberry.
[Speaker 1]
And that’s totally fine. And if he can’t keep up, well, then you dump them and you go to the next one. And that is the power and the beauty and the mystery and everything beautiful about you ladies.
You just that’s it. You can say no thank you to the dance and you can say no thank you. You can know that you don’t want to dance with him without even having had danced with him before, just by watching him, just by watching him with others.
Which is a which is which is a beautiful thing. And but ultimately, at the end of the day, what we’re going for is a relationship, whether this relationship is three minutes long or it’s three lifetimes long. There is a very real power to both parties and both contributing to that relationship, inspired by something mutual, which in this case, as far as for our dance is concerned, is the music that we can create something and we’ll be able to benefit directly from those amazing, dare I say it, butterflies.
You know, whether whether the butterflies, whether you’ve danced with them 10,000 times before, or it’s the first time that how well does this other person, this other person’s puzzle piece connect with yours? And how well can we adapt and mold to one another in this fast paced experience that’s ever evolving and ever changing? It’s so much fun.
So infinitely fun, in my opinion, in my opinion. I think so. And and even if it’s on the smallest little level, you know, you give you give your partner the space and the inspiration to kind of do their own thing.
And it’s like, Oh, I have stage right now. I have the energetic stage between us. I can do what I want.
I can do what I want right now. Like, you know, Oh, hey, hey, sweetheart, you know, why don’t you pick where we’re going out tonight? Or whatever.
Oh, what? Or ladies, how much do you how much do you like it when when the lead or when when, you know, when he picks out your outfit for you, you know, some of these some of these things can be obviously have taken in in the right way, you know, this can be, in a sense, romantic. And if we can do this on the dance floor, and in this, if you would, more playful, not necessarily romantic way, you know, we can kind of create these, these feelings and these elements without it having to do with, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, that type of deal, you know, ladies, you’ve danced with each other before.
Nowadays, there’s a lot of guys that are leading and following as well. You know, that that type of play can exist outside of the romantic relationship realm, if that makes sense. And that’s so many that ultimately, what I’m trying to say is that that’s so much fun.
Because you can experience all of that you can learn a lot about yourself, relationships, other people, connection in general. There’s so many benefits, guys, to this dancing thing, aside from just, you know, physical health. We have a lot to learn from one another.
[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I agree. Humans are complicated.
[Speaker 1]
Oh, infinitely. Yeah, infinitely. And now throwing a song.
Yeah, throwing a song on top of that. And what happens? You know, and then that’s why you have salsa.
You create some, some really, really cool stuff. Any thoughts on that? Again, I’ve been today.
Wow, this one I’ve been rambling.
[Speaker 2]
I guess you like my topic. I do. I genuinely do.
This one I do. Nah, bro. The only thing I actually want to mention is just like, go out there, be yourself.
Don’t, don’t go to…help us serve you. We’re serving you. But if you help us serve you, it’s going to be infinitely better.
Oh, hold on. Help us serve you.
[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Oh, that’s good. That’s really good.
That is a message from leads to follows. Yeah. Help us serve you.
And that’s why we have the servers and guests.
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